gooood团队采访世界各地的有趣建筑师，欢迎您的推荐和建议。
第5期为您奉上的是 马岩松 Ma Yansong

出品人：向玲 XiangLing 王耀华Yaohua Wang

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Q & A 问答预览

1.

2012年MAD完成了两个重要的项目：梦露大厦和鄂尔多斯博物馆。两个项目是MAD重要的成长里程碑。同时这两个作品的概念设计都是在5年前完成的，如果做一个比较，这两个作品与您现在所探索的所追求的理念有哪些变化，这些变化中不同的地方或者是成长，更一步的地方具体体现是什么？
In 2012, MAD completed two important projects: the Absolute Towers and Ordos Museum. The two projects mark an important milestone in MAD’s growth. The two projects were both conceived 5 years ago, if we were to make a comparison, what kind of changes can we see between these two projects and your current exploration and ideals? Where specifically can we see these changes or growth?

我们在2005年设计了鄂尔多斯博物馆，2005年的下半年设计了加拿大的梦露高层建筑。其实在2005年做这个作品的时候，想法也已经积累了一段时间了。可能在2003、2004年都有这样的想法。当时就想在北美的摩天楼聚集的城市，我要做一个高层会做成怎样。不变的是我们今天还是挺关注社会的环境。在鄂尔多斯博物馆其实探讨的就是一个地方文化在现代文明中的位置的问题。当然它还有原来的自然环境，还有人文环境，但是总的来说是在历史的这个时期怎么看蒙古文化，或者作为地方文化的代表。在梦露大厦其实也是面对着整个的北美摩天楼的背景。就是作为一个东方的设计师进入到这么一个摩天楼的故乡，我们要怎么表现。当时我们是觉得想去批判摩天楼作为权力和资本的纪念碑这么一个现象。那么我们的建筑不想体现那种力量，所以最后我们的设计是非常柔软，自然的。这个对建筑这样的出发点，就是对社会，对自然，对环境的关注，到今天的作品还一直有。可能现在我们更关注是我们说的这种感觉和人能体验到的这部分东西。当时可能高层建筑更多是在造型方面，而博物馆可能是造型加空间。现在我们新的作品会有各式各样的环境，各式各样的功能。有剧院，比如说有更多的建筑群体，所以那样会造成一种比如城市环境，比如说更多探讨人的尺度，在城市里人的小尺度的这么一些作品。在之后我们还设计了一个叫胡同泡泡，它就是一个非常有意思的东西。你说它跟鄂尔多斯博物馆，在形式上非常类似，但是它处在不同的环境，而且它大小尺寸不一样。它是一个卫生间，一个非常小的作品。但是它就探讨的是跟历史、跟人之间更亲密的一种关系。这个东西会在我们今后作品中可能表现的更被关注吧。同时就是城市尺度，因为之前我觉得这两个尺度都是缺失的。就是你谈一个单体建筑很难谈对城市的理想和人怎么能切身能体会。所以山水城市是我们最近非常关注的，山水城市除了一个城市的形象以外，它有一个体验，它有一个情感的表达和感受，而且它是在城市施工。

In 2005, we designed Ordos Museum, and the Absolute Towers in the latter half of that year. Actually design ideas have already been accumulating before, maybe since 2003 or 2004. At that time, I had thoughts about how I would design a high-rise in North America, knowing it is clustered with skyscrapers. We were concerned with the social environment at that time just as we are now. Ordos Museum is really a discussion about the role of local culture in modern civilization. Of course, there is also the natural environment, and the humanistic environment, but overall, it is how we look at Mongolian culture in this period of time in history, as a representative of the indigenous culture. The Absolute Towers faces the background of the North American skyscrapers. It is a question of how we would act as Eastern architects entering into this homeland of the skyscrapers. At that time, we thought to criticize the skyscraper as a monument of power and of capitalism. Hence, we reject that phenomenon in our design; therefore, our design is soft and natural. From this departure point, we still have the preoccupation with society, nature, and environment. While the high-rise is more concerned with formal qualities, the museum considers spatial qualities and people’s feelings, in addition to formal qualities. Now, our new projects will have all kinds of different contexts and functions. For example, if there are more architectural clusters that form an urban environment, there will emerge more projects that investigate human under the urban context.After that, we have also designed a project called Hutong Bubble, a very interesting project. The Hutong Bubble is similar to Ordos Museum formally, yet it is situated in a very different environment, and at a different scale. It is a bathroom, a very small project.The small project explores the intimate relationship between history and humankind, perhaps it will come to greater notice in our future designs as small scale representative. At the same time, we will focus on the urban scale, because previously, I have thought that both of these scales are lacking. As you said, a single architectural entity is difficult to bring out the ideals of cities and human experience. Hence, Shanshui City is something that especially interests us. More than being about the formal qualities of a city, Shanshui City is an experience, and an expression of emotions and feelings, which is constructed in a city.

2.

您说的“山水城市”概念的景象引起了我和很多朋友的共鸣。接下来是两个问题，第一个是关于单体尺度的，在建筑单体这个尺度，山水城市的理念是怎么样发展的？
The concept of “Shanshui City” resonates with me and many others. Hence I have two questions that follow, the first concerns the unit scale; how does the concept of “Shanshui City” develop from the scale of a single architectural entity?

山水城市其实是一个城市尺度的问题吧，它是一个理想。就是我们未来的城市是什么样子的。是这个问题现在很少被谈起，一个城市没有理想，我觉得是不长久的事情。现在我觉得城市千城一面，在大家批评城市千城一面的同时又去批评那些标新立异的建筑。我觉得这是一种矛盾现象，就是改变也不对，不改变也不对，我觉得这个矛盾的一个根源是在于大家不知道，没有一个共同的理想。就是没有去谈我们想要什么城市，我们未来向往的生活是什么，没有这个。那城市就像一个商场里的货架一样，这上面可能有平庸的商品，也有可能有很标新立异的商品，大家就是谈谈这些商品，但是意义不大，有好有不好。它只是货架，它没有什么灵魂。现在有人就想用货架上的商品去改变这个城市的属性，所以说什么标志性建筑，或者一个城市点缀几个特别的，大型的这种新建筑，试图改变这个城市。但其实不是，你看很多传统的城市已经给我们这个启发了，像老北京、杭州、苏州这样这种成功的城市，有灵魂，有文化的城市，它其实有很强的价值观在后面。所以整个城市的发展既有特色，又是在价值观下发展的，这就是我们缺失的。其实山水城市就是在谈这个层面的东西，它就是理想，它就想说一个现代城市应该建立在人造和自然相结合，然后更关注人的情感得这么一个城市。人的情感就是你要营造整体环境，而不是说去分开建筑物和街道、公共空间。我觉得现状就是这样，觉得我们在做物品、商品、在做货架上可以产生经济效益的东西。如果把一个城市当成一个总体环境来看，我觉得就是一个价值观和一个梦想的营造。它可以发生在任何尺度，山水城市是一个城市，你难道说园林不是一个山水城市的思想体现吗？或者它哪怕是一个盆景放在桌子上，在古时候一个盆景一张画，可能对一个人来说就是一个宇宙了。所以它不在乎一个尺度。老北京这个城市也是整个当成一个花园来营造的，这个花园可能体现在不同的尺度，也可能是在未来的超大城市的尺度。我觉得这是一个思想，它不是一个具体的一种操作性的东西。一个单体建筑，我觉得单体建筑比一个园林已经大很多了，如果一个园林里面可以有这种思想，建筑也完全可以。

“Shanshui City” is a matter of city size, it is an ideal.It is what our future city will be like. Right now, this is a topic rarely brought up, but I believe that a city without ideals cannot last. Currently, I feel that all the cities are identical. While people criticize the metropolis’ lack of uniqueness, they also criticize those unconventional architecture. I feel that this is a contradictory phenomenon; it says that it is wrong to change and wrong to not change. I believe that this conflict is a result of people not knowing alongside a lack of common ideal; we never talk about what kind of cities we want, what kind of future life we aspire to, none of this. That kind of city is like shelves in a shop, it may contain mediocre products or remarkable products. Everyone talks about these products, but it’s not meaningful, for they just judge whether they are good or bad.The thing to consider is that the shelf doesn’t have a soul. At the moment, people want to use the products on the shelves to change the properties of the city: use the so-called iconic architecture or embellish it with a few special, new large-scale projects in attempts to change the city. But it isn’t actually like that. You can see that many traditional cities have already provided the enlightenment. Cities like the old Beijing, Hangzhou, Suzhou, are successful cities with soul and culture; because they have very strong values behind them. However, at present we lack city under developments that still have both unique identity and value.“Shanshui City” addresses these issues; It is a desire to create a modern city based on the union of the artificial and the natural, and concerns itself more with human emotions. What I mean by “human emotions” is that you must
create a holistic environment, and not to separate the architectural, the street, and the public spaces. I think that is how it currently is; I feel that we are creating products, things that generate economic benefits on the store shelves. To regard a city as a holistic environment, I believe, is creation of a value and an ideal. It can happen at any scale, “Shanshui City” is a city, can you say a “Yuanlin” (Chinese landscape garden) is not the realization of “Shanshui City?” Or even just a bonsai on a table. In ancient times, a bonsai and a painting maybe a whole universe to someone.Maybe to someone, it is
already a universe, hence it doesn’t matter the size. Old Beijing is a city that was also created as a garden; this garden may reflect different scales and sizes, even it could be the size of a mega city in the future. This is a thought; rather than a tool for operation. I feel that a single architectural entity is already bigger than a garden, if a garden can have these kind of ideas, then so can architecture.

3.

第二个问题是在城市尺度的，中国现在的城市建设速度非常疯狂，山水城市的理念在您眼中如何与当代中国的社会情况相结合？同时山水城市是否是您当下唯一关注的城市理念？当您面对城市尺度的设计时，是否还有其他的您所关注的概念？
The second question pertains to the urban scale. Chinese cities are currently building at an insane rate, how does the concept of “Shanshui City” interact and fit in with the current social conditions in China? Also, is “Shanshui City” currently the sole concern in urban concepts? When you are faced with the design in the urban scale, are there other concepts that you are also concerned with?

我觉得城市都是疯狂的。包括西方建城的时候，建曼哈顿、芝加哥的时候，都是人类充满了改造自然，征服自然。充满了自我炫耀，充满了对技术，对自我挑战，对财富追求的这些可以说”恶”的一部分，这种欲望和冲动造就了城市。所以山水城市的思想，我觉得是在讲一个城市的灵魂，就一个城市可以是纷杂、混乱的，可以是纯粹的，但不可无灵魂。就是商业活动不管是繁荣还是衰落的，这是一个经济问题，但不是一个精神的问题。一个城市可能是一个很小的城市也可能是一个很大的城市，但是如果没有灵魂的城市，它没有归属感。可能是一个超级大的商业城市，比如说拉斯维加斯，它缺少一个归属感。所以我觉得这个城市谈它的精神性，并不跟它的城市尺度有矛盾。

I believe that all cities are mad. Even when the West built cities like Manhattan and Chicago, it was driven by man’s desire to conquer nature and change nature. It is filled with technology, bragging, self-challenge, and the pursuit of wealth. These aspects can be seen as “evil,” but it was these desires and impulses that created the city. Hence, the idea of “Shanshui City” is about a city’s soul. The city can be complex, chaotic, or pure, but it cannot be soulless. However, the commercial activities in a city, whether prosperous or in decadence, only relate to economy, not ones’ spirit. A city could be a small one or a big one, but one without soul is one without a sense of belonging. It could be a commercial mega-city, such as Las Vegas, but it may still lack a sense of belonging. Therefore, I believe talking about a city’s spiritual qualities does not conflict with its size.

4.

不知道您是否同意，我觉得山水城市是一个非常中国的概念，而您又有着很深厚的国外教育背景，您是如何看待西方建筑和中国建筑之间的差别，以及如何将二者结合的呢？
I don’t know if you agree, but I feel that the “Shanshui City” is a very Chinese concept, and you have a very strong foreign education background. What do you believe are the differences between western architecture and Chinese architecture, and how can these two be merged?

山水城市是一个东方概念。其实在东方的很多地方也有体现，很多文化，山水画啊、园林啊这些都有。但是我是这么看传统的，我觉得一个文化，就像我们谈鄂尔多斯博物馆的时候，一个文化它要不停的向前走，它从来不应该被称之为地方文化。因为地方文化往往是一个主流文化强加给你的一个名词，是限制你发展，它要你变成一个非主流的，所谓被保护的情况。但是我是这么看东方文化，我觉得整个人类文明分为东西方两个很不一样的两个文化。我们今天的世界其实就是被西方文化影响的，因为工业革命也好等等这些，等于近现代这些所有的革命，是把西方的古典文明和逻辑、思想、哲学已经发展到现在的文明了，而且影响了全世界的人的思想、生活、艺术、城市等等。我就想，其实全世界的人都应该感兴趣吧，至少好奇。如果东方的古典文明变成一个未来的艺术、城市，会体现成什么样子？我觉得这是一个全人类的事，并不是说我们想坚守一个东方文明，不存在这样的。因为东方文明说实话也不是我的，它是前辈的，而这个前辈创造的这些成就，本身就是全人类的，全人类都想让它变成一个对未来有贡献的东西。而它现在没有，还没有被继承或者被发扬，而恰恰今天我觉得就是最好的时机，因为西方的文明到现代社会，一直是建立在征服和改造世界的观念上。就是人强于所有东西，就像奥林匹克一样，更快，更高，更强。这强调人的这种力量，然后挑战自己，更快更高更强，我觉得这些都不是人的最困难的追求。最困难的追求也是人独有的思想和思辨的能力。奥运会体现的是一个西方的价值。所以今天我觉得非常重要就是全人类应该去体会东方文明中的智慧。因为现在整个人类都面临这样一个困境了，就是人改造自然，然后不跟自然去共处，然后造成很多问题。我是对启发性非常有兴趣，我觉得我发现越来越多的传统的东方文化非常有未来感。这是我感兴趣的地方，我不是认为自己是一个坚守传统文化，或者是保护传统文化的概念。我觉得本身这个文化就不是我的，我为什么要坚守它。它本来就是属于全人类的，今天所有的学者、知识分子、设计师，无论是中国还是外国的，都有责任把这种文化给发扬出来。所以我不想看到这种文化被主动或者被动的变成一种更加被珍视的，或者变成珍宝的，很不一样的这么一种遗产。所以我觉得从来不想在我们的作品中很表象有这些符号化的东西吧。

ShanShui City is an Eastern concept. In fact, this concept appears in many aspects of the Eastern culture, like in landscape water-color paintings and in gardens. But I see tradition in a different way. Like when we are talking about Ordos Museum, I feel that culture has to keep moving forward, it should never be referred to as a local culture, because the local culture is often a name imposed by the mainstream, which will limit one’s development. Because if you become mainstream, you will be protected. However, I see Oriental Culture in another way. I feel that human civilization is divided into two poles. Our world today is in fact the influence of western culture, because of the industrial revolution, and so on. It is as if all of the modern revolutions have developed the Western classical civilization, logical thinking and western philosophy to our civilizations today, and influence the thinking of people around the world, in terms of life, art, city, etc.I think, people all over the world should be interested in it, at least curious. If the Eastern classical civilizations turn into the future art and city, what would it become? I think it is the business of everyone in the world. There is no such a thing as to say that we want to stick to an oriental civilization. Because Eastern civilization, to tell the truth, is not mine; it belongs to our predecessors. Their achievements created by the predecessors, belongs to all the mankind, so we want to make it a contribution to the future.It has not been inherited or carried forward, but rather the best time is now, because ranging from the Western civilization to the modern society, development has been built on the concept of world conquest and transformation. Man is superior to everything, like the Olympic slogan, “faster, higher, and stronger”. It stresses this spirit, and makes us challenge ourselves, to be faster, higher and stronger. But I think these ideas are not the most difficult pursuit. The most difficult pursuit is to have our own unique ideas and speculative ability. The Olympics embodies Western value. So today I think it is very important for all of humanity to understand the wisdom of the Oriental civilization. Because now the whole human race is faced with a predicament; People transform nature, but do not coexist with the natural, causing a lot of problems. I am very interested in the idea of enlightenment. I strongly believe that traditional Oriental Culture embodies a sense of futurism. This idea captures my interest. I do not believe I’m sticking to traditional culture, or the concept of protecting traditional culture. I don’t believe this culture is mine, so why do I need to stick to it? It originally belongs to all mankind; And all the scholars, intellectuals, designers, whether Chinese or foreign, have a responsibility to inherit this culture.Therefore, I do not want to see this culture being turned into a more cherished treasure or different heritage. With this in mind, we don’t want these symbolic things to appear in our works.

5.

MAD一直是中国建筑界快速成长的成功范例，我好奇地是，在MAD的快速成长的过程里，您是否面对过不太顺利的时候？以及当您面对那些不顺的时候，您是如何应对的？
MAD has always been a successful example of the rapid growth of the construction industry in China. What I am curious about is that in MAD’s fast-growing pace, whether you have faced some difficult times. When you are faced with such situations, how do you deal with it?

我觉得任何行业，任何时期所有人都会碰到一些困难吧。我其实觉得这都是工作的一部分，也不会太在意，也很难再想起来去重视这些所谓的困难。我觉得最大的困难还是自己，就是说你如何发现自己，如何发展自己，这是一个非常大的挑战。而这个呢，是需要时间的，这个就是一个规律，你不可能在一个很短的时间变成熟。这个成熟度，思想的深度，和你解决问题和发展想法的勇气，都决定了你能不能达到一个思想高度。而这个思想高度的产生，肯定是需要很长时间，或者它永远不会到来。所谓的发展速度这个东西，我觉得并不是我觉得重要的。我们其实现在可以很快的，如果愿意的话，可以变得更大，可以变得做更多的东西。我觉得不可能有精力去真正的思考，在那样的情况下。我觉得成功，这种定义下的成功，应该来说是非常简单的。因为今天是一个商业时代，以商业社会定义的成功是基于数字的，是基于量的，基于你的影响力。这个影响力不是思想上的影响力，我觉得这种成功是有规则的，是有办法，任何人都可以做到的，基本上。但是思想上的成功并不是这样的。所以我觉得我们都已经非常意识到这是一个长期的工作了，也不会把自己放在一个这种位置，想我们在中国是什么地位这样的位置。其实谈在中国的地位也是挺无聊的一件事，因为就像我刚才讲，我们怎么去看中国传统文化这样的事。视点都已经不一样了，今天是在整个现代文明的开放的平台上讲。

I think in any industry, any period, everyone will encounter some difficulties. Actually, I think this is part of our work, so we will not be too concerned about this, and it is difficult to pay attention to these so-called difficulties. I think the greatest difficulty is ourselves, how to find ourselves, and how to develop our own ideas. This is a very big challenge.It takes time, like a custom, you cannot become mature in a very short time. The level of maturity, the depth of thought, and the level of courage you have to solve the problem and to develop the idea, have decided whether or not you can achieve such a high level of ideological thinking. This high level of ideological thinking certainly takes a very long time, or it will never come. The so-called pace of development, to me is not so important. In fact, we can now quickly, if willing, become larger, and do more things. But in such case, I find it impossible to have the energy to think.I think under this definition, the success is very simple to reach. Because it is such a commercial era, the success of the business community is based on figures, on the quantity, on your influence. This influence is not ideological influence. I think that this success has its rule, has its way, so that anyone can do it, basically. But this success is not ideological.So I think we have to realize this is long-term work, and not put myself in this position, thinking about the status of our position in China. In fact, the talk about status in China is quite boring, like I just said, how do we see the Chinese traditional culture. Viewpoints are no longer the same today in terms of the open platform of the entire modern civilization.

6.

您提到过中国现在迫切需要的是像柯布西耶《走向新建筑》这种具有巨大煽动性和思想性的东西。今天的时代有着更为多样化的方式去传播思想，让建筑成为时代的镜子，让普通人能关注如何改善自己生活的城市。谷德也希望能在这个进程中起一份推动作用。不知道您对网络媒体平台有什么样的建议？
You mentioned that there is an urgent need in China for something like Le Corbusier’s “Toward a New Architecture “, which has tremendous provocative and thoughtful things.”Towards a New Architecture” makes ordinary people start talking about and paying attention to architecture, and architecture has become a mirror of the times. It is for the ordinary people, for everyone. It is based upon the human.gooood as a media platform also looks forward for such things to happen. Before it happens, gooood also wants to play a part in pushing this process forward. But what it is doing now is not enough. I hope you can help give us some advice.

我觉得网络媒体最重要的就是开放，因为在现实生活中其实中国没有什么建筑评论的。所有人都不说真话，所谓评论也都是认识的人假装说几句。所以不真实的这么一个现实，在真实的社会中不真实，那么网络有可能变成真实的。所以给一个开放的环境，不要想着都是很清洁的语言，很统一的思想，那是不可能的。中国的问题，我觉得就是在这儿。就是不坦率，没有勇气。所以什么叫枪打出头鸟，不愿意表达真正的想法，造成了中国的建筑师不乐观，不积极。我说的柯布西耶，并不是说我们现在要推行现代主义，而是说柯布的这些精神，在那个时代，这些伟大建筑师他们是有理想或者是有热情要改进社会的，他们的行动和这个是非常积极的。其实就包括后来的日本的新陈代谢也是，在日本这个城市变革的时候，他们看到了问题，然后一些建筑师组织起来，形成了这么大的一个社会影响。新陈代谢也被评为亚洲最后一次有理想的群体活动，建筑师聚集起来的活动。中国你可以看到这样的情景吗？中国没有这种情景，中国的建筑量和建筑活动是世界最大的，但是没有一个思想，没有一个或者说是一个学术环境。当然可能跟所有人忙都有关系，但是缺乏这样的讨论，也缺乏那样的像科布的建筑师有一个理想，我想未来是什么什么样，它不在乎你的权威性，就是所有人都不愿意谈这样的话题。那么评论界、理论界也非常缺乏这样的人和这种思想。设计院呢？现在非常的可悲的一个地位吧，所有人觉得他们有很多问题，但是我觉得他们名字是非常好的，叫什么设计研究院，我觉得这是多么超前的名字，知道设计要研究，但是现在没有人研究。所以我想中国需要敢于提出自己想法吧。如果有越来越多的人提出想法，提出他的思想，哪怕乌托邦的观念才能有讨论。我觉得中国需要有勇气提出自己思想的这样的建筑师，然后这个思想呢，会引起讨论，引起争论，但是都没关系。我觉得这才是能营造一个环境吧，一个学术环境，这个环境对未来能有影响。中国传统的文人，建筑师很愿意把自己比作文人。文人的一个很重要的特点就是不入世，要隐世。在古代的这些文人，这些士大夫都是要躲开这种社会的矛盾，要去乡间隐藏起来。这样的人跟我说的科布这样的社会活动家是完全对立的，是不一样的人。因为大家期盼着建筑师提出的理想，你对这个社会的改进办法。而中国我觉得今天是最缺这样声音的。如果说有一部分建筑师已经自取为知识分子了，已经有思想了，甚至已经在批评今天的城市了。那我觉得这些建筑师应该积极的提出你理想的城市是什么，这样这个我觉得这个对话就变得越来越有意义。

I think the most important thing for online media is its openness, because in real life, there is not much architectural criticism in China. All are not telling the truth, and the so-called comments are just mere pretention. So fake is our reality. When the physical society is full of lies, the network may become the place for truth. So it is impossible to be given an open environment, and to think in a not civilized or unified way. I believe this is a problem that lies with China. The problem is the lack of credit and courage. As the old saying goes, the first bird to fly is to be shot. People are unwilling to express their true thoughts, causing many negativism and pessimism in Chinese architectural society. When I talk about Le Corbusier, I do not mean that I want to implement modernism, but I feel Le Corbusier’s spirit in that era represents a lot of the great architects whose ideals and passions are to improve society and their actions have very positive impacts. For example, Japan’s Metabolism Movement happens when the society faced some dramatic changes, the architects saw those problems, and then some architects organized and created such a big social impact.Metabolism is also named Asia’s last ideal group activitry organized by architects. Can you see such a scene in China? China does not have such a scenario. China has the largest building and construction activities, but not one ideology nor any academic environment. Of course it may be because that everyone is busy, but it is also the lack of such a discussion, lack of an architect like Le Corbusier with an ideology. I think what the future looks like, does not depend on the ones with authority. Everyone can talk about it but nobody is willing to talk about this topic. Then there is a lack of such people and such thinking in critics and theorists. What does the Design Institution do? They are in a very sad status, they all feel that they have a lot of problems, but I think they have a very good name. The so-called Designand Research Institute is a very futuristic name. They realize that to design, one needs to study. But no one today pays attention to research. So I think Chinese people need to have the courage to put forward their own ideas.If more and more people put forward their ideas and thoughts, even Utopian ideas, there will be discussions. I think China needs to have its own architect with the courage to put forward their own ideas, and this idea will stimulate discussion, even debates, which do not matter. I think this is the way to create an environment, an academic environment which can affect the future. Architects are willing to call themselves scholars. A very important feature of the scholar is to not confront the contradictions of this society, and prefer to escape to the countryside. Such people are opposite to the socialist such as Corbusier. Because we all look forward to the architects’ proposals of the ideal way to improve the society. China, I think, lacks such voices. If architects have called themselves intellectuals, and have their own thoughts, and have even criticized the city today, I think they should actively put forward what their ideal city is. So I think this dialogue will become more and more meaningful.

后记 By 向玲 Xiang Ling

曾跟着马岩松做房子，设计周期相当缓慢。项目组前期调研就好几个月，现场也是去了很多次。偌大的场地，走走停停便是整整一天。马岩松曾说“不要都是手法，做到最后要只有想法没有手法。”从想法入手，是单纯却又最能触及本质的方法。这种思考者的状态让结果具有烂漫的艺术气息。不刻意追求复杂和深度，本真烂漫，赤子之心。大师的艺术都是烂漫的。我认为马岩松的作品就有这样的特质。期待未来马岩松更多的惊喜。

此外马岩松对中国当下城市发展，业内环境情况等等保持着相当宽度视野和相当深度的考。在变革的中国这是迫切需要的。有勇才能破，有破才能立。希望有类似情怀和认知的人越来越多。

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